Some Comments from the Peanut Gallery

Okay again, this is my talking as a longtime player, not a narrator, and I'm sorry in advance for this post's possible length... Cuz I've got a lot to say.

I've noticed it appears many of the players currently in the chronicle are a bit new to Garou, that or they don't grasp what it means to play a Garou within the OWoD universe so I'm going to try and elaborate on some points, in hopes of better portrayal of the source material and better understanding... Which btw feel free to ask me anything in relation, and also don't take any personal offense since honestly I fuck up a lot as well.

First: Leadership and Ranks..

The chain of command in Garou games is as follows: King of Nation -> Caern Alpha -> Elders / Pack Alpha / Higher Rank Garou -> You...

What this means to the basic character is they follow their alpha's orders, and the orders of anyone above their alpha. Also this means if you are hanging out in the caern at Rank 1, and a Rank 3 comes up to you asking a favor, you do it. Not just because he's higher rank and it's "required" more like "this dude is a badass, he's asking me for help, of course I'm gonna do it." Those garou of higher rank earned it in the field of battle, doing what garou do best, you are raised from day 1 of cub to want to aid your brothers and sisters, especially the elders and higher ranks. Also, this means if the Sept alpha comes to you and tells you to do something, you listen, he's the sept alpha for a reason, the people and kin respect and trust him, so guess what... YOU DO AS WELL... If you didn't you'd grow a pair and challenge him, if you have the position to do so (Pack Alpha), if you're not pack alpha, you listen to your alpha, if they support the Sept Alpha, so do you.

What does this mean in simple terms for current game? Espen (Sept Alpha) -> Sefu & Jakob (Elders Effectively by Espen's word) -> Pack Alphas -> Pack Members..

That's the chain in this game currently. If you ignore it, you incure the wrath of Ragabash and Galliards telling tales of your foolishness, and a Philodox using a rite of punishment on you if your pack alpha doesn't beat them to it.


Second: Pack/Garou mentality

Garou are raised from the day they are brought into the fold as a cub that they are special and that their brothers are just as special. They are taught to work with the other garou they deal with as if they are family, because they are. Yes pack bonds are always deep but you trust the non-pack members with your life until they give you a reason not to, which Gaia willing won't ever happen. This means that yes, random joe shmoe Bone Gnawer you just met, is your equal in most peoples eyes when it comes to trusting you and them, because that's how Garou work. We aren't playing Vampire the Masquerade, you aren't out for yourself. I don't really care what story is your personal story, because your personal story is part of a bigger one in the Garou universe, that of protecting and preserving gaia along with your fellow Garou. Until a garou is deemed tainted, or punished, they are trustworthy by all. This also means they trust you in the same fashion, so don't be scared to ask for help or go chat it up.

What does this mean in our game? Stop worrying if so and so is going to screw you, cuz he isn't. Stop worrying if another player is just going to hog all the renown for helping you solve something or get something done, cuz he won't cuz it's the Galliard and the Spirits who award that, and their word is law, and the Ragabash make sure the Galliards tell the tale right. I get that some characters are very pack minded, but there's a difference between confiding with your pack, and ignoring and disrespecting your fellow garou. And remember sitting around only interacting with your pack, and acting like your pack is the only garou who matter, gets the songs about you to be very dull and not so rewarding, cooperation is the name of the game in Garou, and if that's not your game, well to me (Carl personally not as a staffer) "Why are you playing?"




Those are two big things I've been wanting to state... If you take offense by anything I'm said, sorry, I wasn't trying to flag people as offenders or anything that's why I didn't name names... I'm just trying to state stuff that I've noticed as a player of OWoD for nearly 2 decades now. I love our source material and worry when it seems some people get a few wires crossed, especially newer players, because they can get penalized IC for being mis-informed, and I'd hate to see that both as a friend and a narrator. If you don't like me saying this, well sorry, I've alrdy said it and well, It's as me, if Kendall doesn't like it I'll be another player with you guys instead of a staff member, but I felt certain comments needed to be made. So please take this as it is, words from a longtime OWoD player, just giving some advice. Also, feel free to question what I said, I'll gladly give my reasons for interpreting things the way I do.

I have to say I don't disagree with anything you said.. I know as far as garou goes, I am new and I will admit it. I have been reading since before game to try to get in the venue as best I could, but I know I'm not an experience garou player.

Regardless of this... again I state, I agree with what you say and I'll give some context of my own ad try to make it generic as well...

Yes, it should be known that the ranks go as Caern Alpha -> Elders / Pack Alpha / Higher Rank Garou -> Pack member .... but I do also agree, as far as roleplaying aspect, that some people do not see Espen as a "Cearn Alpha" exactly... whaever name is given: leader, organizer, camp advisor.. yes, he should be the one people go to when it comes to the camp concerns, but he got this position in a ritual and accepting challenges, which is the correct way to do so; as a brother he is trustworthy, but as a leader, respect is something which is earned over time, that's why cearn leaders are NEVER rank 1; low ranks have not had the time to earn respect as much on the public eyes... does this mean we should ignore his words? or not help when he asks? no, by all means no.. we should still see him as the "legal" leader of this camp...

secndly "elders"; this is the same as above. Espen appointed 2 others as advisors. Those who follow espen should also follow his advisors, but well, they need to earn it as well... if a high rank appointed an advisor, others might see this a little more of respect deserving, but we are all low ranks, so being a low rank advisor to another low rank, well, some might not respect this as much; so they need to show they are deserving of the position which is given to them... this all encourages RP, but it seem the lack of trust is making the game fall appart.

As far as mentality: yes, we are "beasts of rage" but this is mainly in the battle field... we should not be so quick to get upset and snap at each others when socializing.. seems like there is a battle of egos which should not be the case... we are creatures of wisdom and should listen to each other... I seen this many times and done by everybody, myself included; that one player says something, and the response seems to be as if the player did not whatsoever listen to the conversation and answered as if the other said the opposite... when on downtime written scenes, please make sure you read what people are saying at least twice and calmly to make sure you actually read what is being said...

I'm enjoying game, and I would like to see it continue... my 2 cents

Kanika-Sefu-Badru wrote:

Yes, it should be known that the ranks go as Caern Alpha -> Elders / Pack Alpha / Higher Rank Garou -> Pack member .... but I do also agree, as far as roleplaying aspect, that some people do not see Espen as a "Cearn Alpha" exactly... whaever name is given: leader, organizer, camp advisor.. yes, he should be the one people go to when it comes to the camp concerns, but he got this position in a ritual and accepting challenges, which is the correct way to do so; as a brother he is trustworthy, but as a leader, respect is something which is earned over time, that's why cearn leaders are NEVER rank 1; low ranks have not had the time to earn respect as much on the public eyes... does this mean we should ignore his words? or not help when he asks? no, by all means no.. we should still see him as the "legal" leader of this camp...

This is where you are wrong... He no longer needs to "earn that respect". He got it the moment Your character accepted to be his advisor. As you being the alpha of the only pack accepting his dominance as alpha, shows you give him that respect. If you didn't you would have challenged him (and if you didn't because you were being nice, sorry but well this is how it is percieved in the Garou nation). He also got it the moment not another member of the sept, cuz yes you can have a sept without a caern rite being done, chose to not challenge him after he proved himself against Sean. Your characters accepted him as the Sept Alpha, people need to stop trying to weasel out of that part, this isn't VTM, Garou just don't think like that except for rare occasions (namely the Paranoid Derangement).

His advisors also have the same respect shown for one reason, the respect Espen gained for asserting himself as alpha is conveyed to them by him naming them his advisors. In a Sept, when an Alpha names his right hands, the sept listens to them and regards them nearly his equals, because to be blunt "the Alpha said so."

I was talking out of how people are reacting; not what it should be.. either way, thank you for the clarification